MURDERED: Laci Peterson Part 2

[00:00] Hi, Crime Junkies. It's Britt, and I have big news. One of my favorite seasonal shows, CounterClock, is back with a brand new season, and it is wild. Host Delia D'Ambra is digging into the 2008 Lane Bryant murders. I mean, this isn't just a recap. It is a reinvestigation. She's talking to law enforcement, people from the community, even sources who have never spoken publicly until now. And you know I love a show that asks all the questions. Listen to CounterClock Season 8 now wherever you get your podcasts. [00:30] *music* [01:00] This episode of Crime Junkie is brought to you by Crime Stoppers of Central Indiana. Excuse me, can I ask you a question real quick? Yeah, go for it. Do you know what Crime Stoppers is? Is it that dog, the scruff? Nope, can't sing the song, can't afford the song. But do you know what they do? Isn't it the dog just kind of goes around and helps solve the murders for the state government? I don't know.

[01:30] - What's that look like? [01:31] While everyone loves the idea of a badass crime-fighting dog, that's not what Crime Stoppers is. Crime Stoppers is a nonprofit that allows a place for people to give anonymous tips about crimes if they are in fear for their life or, for whatever reason, don't want the police to know who they are when they give the tip, but they have valuable information. You can do this through phone numbers, online tips. They even have an app called P3 that you can download and submit your tip along with photos and videos. Yeah. [02:00] Crime Stoppers is a nonprofit and receives no government funding. So look into yours, see how you can get involved, see how you can help. And if you want more information on Crime Stoppers of Central Indiana, go to crimetips.org. [02:13] Merry Christmas, junkies. You know, most of the podcasts that I subscribe to and listen to all go on hiatus during the holidays. And it's something that drives me insane because there isn't a time in my life when I need podcasts more than A, when I'm traveling and B, when I have to spend... [02:31] a ton of time with extended family and then I just need like a couple of minutes to myself to turn off my brain and listen to a story about murder. [02:40] So with that, I figure I would give you your Christmas fix by giving you the second part of the Scott Peterson episode. If you didn't listen to the first part, make sure you go back and download episode two, Scott Peterson part one. And where we left off is it is March of 2003 and the case had gone pretty cold. Investigators really believe Scott did it. They're not looking into any other suspects, but nothing is happening to further the case and they're kind of just stuck. Okay.

[03:10] on... [03:11] April 13th and 14th, that's when the bodies of Connor and Lacey were found. And Connor was found first on the 13th. [03:20] And then Lacey was found on the 14th, and they were found just about a mile apart. [03:25] and the first body was alerted to police because someone was walking their dogs. [03:31] Prior to this, you know, they had actually searched the Berkeley Marina where... [03:36] Scott said he was. I mean, they had done multiple searches, searched the water, didn't come up with anything. They found an anchor, a lone anchor. But they actually washed up in the San Francisco Bay. And the police say that when they initially washed up, they thought there's no way that this is our body. Like, [03:54] The San Francisco Bay is too huge. Bodies wash up all the time. We're just not that lucky. [03:59] But sure enough, they find out that it is Lacey. It is Connor. And the bodies are... [04:07] obviously a mess. They have been in the water for [04:10] Some time, we don't know exactly how long, but Lacey was just a torso. Her arms, her legs, and her head were missing and just her torso washed up. And then for Connor, it looks like he had been almost disemboweled and he had some electrical tape on his ear and [04:30] and this fishing wire or some kind of wire that looked like a noose around his neck. So, [04:36] When we talk about the trial, there'll be a lot of speculation about what happened to the body and whether it was the tide or not, but they were found in extremely unusual conditions. After the body's found, obviously it takes a couple of days to identify them. And I think another, one of the big infamous points in the trial is on April 18th. It's Good Friday. And this is when Scott is...

[05:01] air quotes, running for the border and trying to escape. What happens is police... [05:08] arrests Scott in San Diego, and in his car, they find... [05:16] so many things. They find camping gear, [05:20] four cell phones, his brother's ID, between $14,000 and $15,000 in cash, hiking boots, [05:27] a shovel, a dozen Viagra, and a picture of him and Lacey. And his hair is dyed blonde. [05:34] and [05:34] All that we hear again in the media is he's fleeing, he's on the run. [05:40] And he was trying to, now that their bodies are found and identified, he's trying to get away. Now, we go back again. There's always the family side of the story. And what they say happened is... [05:53] is [05:53] wildly different. So they say that that day on Good Friday, Scott was going to play golf [06:00] with his family. They say that, you know, it had been just a crazy couple of months. They were just like starving for some normalcy. And so he... [06:11] wanted to get away. He had been actually living in San Diego for a while because he had family that lived down there. So it's not like he drove from Modesto to San Diego that day. He had been living in San Diego and he was on his way to the golf course. [06:23] he saw some unmarked cars behind him, and he thought it was the media. So he just kind of starts driving around. He actually calls his family. He doesn't want to bring...

[06:33] the media to the golf course because you know getting pictures of him golfing that would just be a nightmare so what he doesn't know at the time which i think ends up being good for him is police have his phone tapped and he actually calls his family to tell him that he's not going to make it. [06:47] Hey, Jim. Brother. What's up? I lost. I don't think another set got me. Oh, brother. I don't think I should come play golf. [06:57] I don't want a picture of me in the press. [06:59] Wow, yeah. [07:01] Yeah, they know I'm on to them. God, that just sucks, man. [07:05] He ends up driving and driving and driving, and they're still following him. They're being pretty aggressive. [07:10] He finally does end up going to the golf course. He doesn't know where else to go. And he pulls over. And that's when they put on their lights. And he realizes that it's been the cops the whole time and not media. And they end up arresting him. [07:24] and find all of the stuff in his car. But what the family will point out as well is, okay, yes, he was blonde. However, he had been blonde for a while. He had met with cops while he was blonde and had the goatee. So it's not like he was disguising himself from the cops. He was just trying to get through day-to-day life, going to the gas station and going to the grocery store without people bombarding him. So really, he didn't change his appearance for that, which again, I never knew. No, me neither. [07:54] like that. And then they go to try and explain away all the stuff in the car. And... [08:01] They say that the $15,000 in cash was actually, his mother had borrowed some money out of his account, and the day before,

[08:10] They have all the transactions to prove this, but the day before, she pulled money out to pay him back, and he hadn't gotten a chance to put it in the bank yet. [08:18] You know, again... [08:20] I don't know what to believe anymore. It's like, I wouldn't be driving around with $15,000 of cash, but I don't. But on the other hand, it's Good Friday and banks may not be open all day. Oh, that's a good point. I didn't think of that. Et cetera, et cetera. Um, [08:31] They said he had his brother's ID because he was going to the golf course and he could get a discount with his brother's ID rather than using his ID. [08:39] And then the hiking boots and stuff like that, he had bought, like, a long time ago and left in his car. And they also point out that he's driving, like, a red Mercedes. And they say, like, who trades in their, like, pretty inconspicuous truck for a red Mercedes to... If you're going to go on the run. Right. So, again, like, what I keep coming back to with this case is, oh, my God, he... [09:04] either like did it and he's a genius who can like kill somebody and leave zero evidence or [09:10] Or, like, he is an idiot with just, like, the worst luck possible. [09:17] Because like [09:19] I mean, I can't even imagine getting pulled over with all that stuff and just being like, every single one of it has this benign explanation, but all together looks really, really shady. [09:30] Yeah, like, I got pulled over for speeding once, and there was a... [09:34] bottle of maple syrup in my front seat and I was like I'm sorry officer this isn't liquor it's maple syrup you know the entire time so now that there's an arrest there's actually a pending trial so the defense gets

[09:48] all 30,000 pages of documents [09:51] And they can actually, because prior to this, like, the family and the defense have no right to any of the information in the investigation. They have no idea what the police do and do not have. So this is the first time they really get their hands on, like, okay, what do they have against Scott that they think they have such a firm case? And... [10:10] as they're going through all these documents, [10:12] there isn't a single... [10:15] of physical evidence that suggests Scott had anything to do with the disappearance or that he had anything to do with a body dump or body removal and [10:25] They went so far back in this history to like middle school, there wasn't a single... [10:30] incidents of violence. They decide to move the trial. Instead of having it in Modesto, they said, you know, it's everyone in Modesto is too tainted. We have to move this. So they move it to Redwood, California, which is about 50 miles away. Everyone in Modesto is tainted by the trial. Everyone in the [10:49] country. [10:50] was exposed to this case and had very strong opinions about it because [10:56] Me and you in Indiana, [10:58] Right. Like in my mind, moving it 50 miles, I mean, we were 2000 miles away. It does nothing. Right. I don't know what the point was. And actually, they moving it to Redwood, they actually moved it closer to San Francisco, which was the media hub in the area. So I mean, in my mind, I feel like they're only making it worse.

[11:18] Yeah. [11:19] So initially when they're doing jury selection, 50% of the jury pool gets automatically dismissed because they say, nope, yeah, he's he's for sure guilty. Like the end. They dismiss those people. [11:31] And also, they dismiss anyone who says that they're against the death penalty. And this is a death penalty case. However, what the judge was supposed to do is he's supposed to ask people, okay, I know you're against the death penalty, but you know that's the law here. And if we find that he's guilty, do you think that you could apply the law to this case? But he didn't do that at all. He just said, okay, you're against the death penalty. You're out. [12:00] which really left a very specific type of juror left in this pool. Yeah, like an angry, vindictive one. And then we even had people from the jury. So in this documentary I watched, people who were on the jury admitted that as soon as they found out what trial they were on, even if they weren't familiar with it, they went home and just Googled. And of course, again, all we're getting... [12:25] is the media [12:26] their version of what happened. And that's what these prospective jurors who are now on the jury are getting all of this information before even day one of walking into the courtroom. And once they're in the courtroom... [12:38] the judge makes the decision not to sequester the jury. Which is insane. Insane. A trial this big, like the OJ trial, was about the same size and scope, and the jury was sequestered there for 8 to 10 months. And here, they were allowed to go home, they were allowed to talk to their families, and again...

[12:56] It's against the law for jurors to research the case on their own or to even listen to the news about it. But this case was everywhere. I don't know how they were able to get away from it. You couldn't go grocery shopping without hearing about it, honestly. So now that they have a jury... [13:15] The prosecution finally lays out its case, and nobody knew what they were going to say, because again, there's really nothing, so everyone's really interested to see what their story was. And the prosecution says that, [13:29] Lacey was killed on the 23rd [13:33] He cleans up [13:34] moves her body in the morning to his truck, and that he takes it to the marina and dumps it. And their whole motive is that basically he did not want to be a father. He did not want to be married anymore. It was all too much. He wanted to live the life of a... [13:49] young single guy and [13:51] He just thought it would be easier to murder her than to get divorced. The defense gets up in their opening arguments and basically says, you know, what we all know. They say, [14:03] you aren't gonna like my clients. Like he's... [14:06] done some stupid shit and he's not necessarily a nice guy or a nice husband or a faithful husband but we're going to prove to you that he is an innocent husband of murder and they have this great like gotcha moment right in their opening trial so the prosecution when they were laying out their their their scene of the crime or their way it went down um they're like they're like

[14:30] they are going through all of his lies. And, like, he lied about this. And one of the lies that they point out is, you know, he has this whole fabricated story about how he was spending the morning with Lacey. Really, he didn't spend the morning with her. He says they were watching Martha Stewart and that they were – she was baking lemon meringue cookies and – [14:45] But she wasn't, so he's obviously lying about that, blah, blah, blah. And in the defense's... [14:51] opening statement, they actually bust out the episode of Martha Stewart. She was on Good Morning America, I think that day. And they play the clip of her on Good Morning America. And sure enough, she's talking about lemon meringue cookies. So even that's amazing. It is. It's like kind of a Perry Mason moment, like whoever the prosecution was, didn't even bother. [15:12] To watch the clip, they're just, I mean, kind of like the media. They're just saying things that they want to be true. And they actually got caught red-handed. [15:21] For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases. And in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. [15:41] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time. Listen to the deck now. [15:48] wherever you get your podcasts. [15:51] Another huge moment for the defense in this trial is when they call, when the prosecution calls their computer witness. So every time the prosecution's bringing somebody up, it's kind of like a one-two punch, like, yeah, they say some good stuff for the prosecution, but then the defense gets up and kind of gets them to either refute what they say, contradict themselves, but...

[16:12] The jury said that every time a prosecution witness came up, basically when they got off the stand, they... [16:18] They either felt like the defense was ahead or the prosecution didn't get ahead. So the defense was doing super well. [16:24] Prosecution calls up the computer witness to talk about the computer activity on Scott's [16:30] work computer where he was in his warehouse that morning when I said he was emailing his boss and putting together this like tool thing. [16:38] and [16:40] They don't ask any further questions, but when the defense gets up, [16:43] they say, you know, was there any computer activity in the home that morning? And sure enough, it wasn't in this guy's report, it wasn't anywhere else, but he's on the stand and has to testify truthfully. He says that that morning, around 8.40 in the morning, [17:00] Lacey or someone was looking at like a red scarf from Gap or something like that and then a sunflower umbrella. [17:10] And this basically blows the prosecution's theory out of the water because at this point, Lacey's supposed to be dead. Right. [17:20] And now someone is on the computer [17:23] at her home. [17:24] looking up stuff and everyone said, you know, Lacey was obsessed with sunflowers and [17:28] and whatever. [17:29] Now she's all of a sudden alive. [17:32] And... [17:33] You know, there's some back and forth later. So at this point, the prosecution doesn't know where or how... [17:39] All they have is when, [17:41] But by the time this guy gets off the stand, they don't have how she was murdered, they don't have where she was murdered, when she was murdered.

[17:48] and they basically have a loose "why?" [17:51] but they basically have no case at this point. But they keep going and then they try and say, "Well, [17:56] You know, Scott was just trying to cover his tracks. And so he got on and looked at stuff on the computer that Lacey would look up. [18:05] If that's the case, [18:07] why wouldn't Scott be using that in his defense? This didn't come out until the middle of trial [18:11] The police have been saying she was dead on the 23rd for like a year at this point. Why wouldn't Scott, if he did that intentionally, be like, "Hey, look at the computer. I saw her on the computer. She was on the computer." [18:22] It just doesn't make sense. [18:25] And if that was the case, even if Lacey was, so basically the prosecution changes their whole theory and they say, okay. [18:31] We kind of concede to it. Lacey's on the computer. [18:33] then you have about an hour to kill her, clean up, and then load up her body and leave. So mid-trial, which is... [18:41] They completely changed their whole theory of the case, which I think is... [18:45] damn near unheard of. Yeah, that's [18:48] Not a good move. [18:50] Right. The prosecution also says that he... [18:53] They found some empty, like, concrete powder bags in his workshop. And he admits that he made one anchor for his boat. And they say, well, you know, there should be, like, four more anchors. And that's the perfect amount because Lacey's limbs were missing and, you know, whatever. You have an extra one for a head. Who knows? And Scott's like, no, I kind of – I dumped out the rest of that concrete in my driveway and, [19:17] And again, this was something that the media took off with, especially Nancy Grace. She was...

[19:21] all over this concrete. And there's this kind of great [19:25] outside of the trial, gotcha moment, [19:28] where on video they take Nancy Grace to the house to show her where Scott says he poured out the concrete because she's just going on and on and on in the news about how that's crazy and why would anyone ever do that and they show her where it is in the ground and you can see it and she just goes [19:45] Huh. [19:46] and then never talks about it ever again. Man. [19:49] I know. So at this point in the trial... [19:54] defense is crushing it. And all the jurors even say, like... [19:58] They had nothing. The prosecution had nothing. And we were all wondering kind of why we were there. [20:04] But then the trial totally changes. [20:07] with the introduction of the tapes. [20:09] When the defense gets a hold of these, they first get the transcripts of the tapes between Scott and Amber. And they realize, like, as they're reading the transcripts, like, yeah, this is, like, bad, but it's not super bad. Like, I think we can work around this. He's a bad husband, but this isn't, like... [20:26] send a man to death row worthy. But they say that when they hear the tapes, it's just a totally different story. It shows that Scott has zero problem lying. And I mean, in the midst, there's not even like sadness in his voice in the midst of everything that's going on. He's putting on this whole charade about being in Europe and being in love with her. And [20:49] You would have no idea that something was going wrong in his life, much less that his wife and his child had been abducted and then murdered.

[20:58] So once these tapes are introduced in court, [21:03] Even the jurors say it's just kind of over. The defense really tries to get them to consider anything else. They actually set up this test where... [21:16] They take 150 pound body shaped weight [21:20] in the same size boat that Scott had and tried to show that it would be impossible to [21:26] put something that heavy over the side of a boat without capsizing or flipping the boat. And they tested it four times. And every single time, they couldn't do it without flipping the boat. And the guy that actually did the test almost drowned twice. But the court wouldn't allow any of that information in. They said it was just too inflammatory, which is, I think, a little bit crazy. Yeah, inflammatory is definitely a little bit of a stretch. Right. [21:56] is they said that [21:58] they got dogs that tracked Lacey's scent to the marina. [22:03] The dogs had come out months after Lacey went missing, and what they find... [22:10] the defense finds is that the dogs had actually failed their certification test for being tracking dogs. And twice before they had gone out and hadn't hit on Lacey's scent, [22:22] But that was never entered into evidence. They basically just said that they went out and [22:27] saw her... [22:28] smelled her immediately. There was also cross-contamination, so some of the stuff that they gave the dogs of Lacey's also could have had Scott scent on it, and of course Scott was at the marina. So I don't know, again, what order this came in. If the first two times, if they were working off the same scent piece, or maybe the third time, the one they were working off of had both rather than just Lacey's. Either way, I think it was something that shouldn't have been entered

[22:58] that fails their certification, then doesn't hit twice, [23:01] I mean, if you're not going to allow the boat thing in, I don't know how this got in. Right. Another thing that was really contested during trial was the time of death for Connor. Because Lacey was pregnant at the time, they wanted to show, again, prosecution's whole theory is either she's killed on the 23rd or the 24th. Either way... [23:21] Connor would have to be dead in the womb at that point. So the prosecution has an expert come up that says Connor's dead on the 24th. The defense has a witness come up that says Connor's dead on the 29th. [23:35] So this shows that he could have actually lived in the womb five days longer and [23:40] And five days later, Scott's [23:42] with the media, Scott's with family, he's not doing anything. There's no way he's even got Lacey, like, tucked away somewhere. Right. [23:49] So... [23:50] They kind of go back and forth. The defense witness kind of breaks down on trial. Like he's clearly never been cross-examined or at least not cross-examined properly. [23:59] and basically it's a little bit of a meltdown and just ask people to like give him a break. [24:03] And at that point, everyone on the jury just kind of stops listening to him. [24:09] Cape Fear is a new series now streaming on Apple TV. This 10-episode psychological thriller is executive produced by Martin Scorsese and stars Academy Award winner Javier Bardem, Academy Award nominee Amy Adams, and Emmy nominee Patrick Wilson. When convicted murderer Max Cady is released from prison, he begins infiltrating the family of the married attorneys who helped put him behind bars. Watch Cape Fear streaming now on Apple TV.

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[26:15] unreliable. [26:16] I mean, but I think when you have 21 to 24, you've got something there. [26:20] Yeah, definitely. [26:22] He just felt like it wouldn't hold up in court, so he decided to not use it at all. [26:26] Jurors later said they would have loved to like [26:28] at least hear a couple of people say like, "Hey, yeah, I think I saw her." [26:33] And the way they basically wrap up the trial is the defense kind of goes flat and they just say, you know, we showed a lot of evidence. He didn't do it. They don't have any physical evidence. And the prosecution came out with a one-two punch and they relied on what their whole case was based on, on this affair. [27:03] that was taken the same time as Scott is cuddling with Amber at this other Christmas party. And really hammering, because they don't have anything else, they just hammer in motive. And sure enough... [27:17] that [27:17] jury comes back with a guilty verdict. [27:20] and sentences him to death. So in 2012, Scott has a new team of attorneys and they've actually filed an appeal [27:30] And really there's three things that they're basing the appeal on. One is they said that the jury selection was defective, that [27:38] The judge should not have allowed people who just fully, wholeheartedly believed in the death penalty. There was also... [27:45] a lot of jury turnover during the trial of people who got kicked off, people who felt threatened and asked to get kicked off, and people who were talking about the case outside of the trial, which they shouldn't have been, but then didn't get kicked off. So it was very tumultuous. Yeah, lots of jury misconduct, possibly. So they're saying that that was one reason.

[28:07] They said that the evidence was faulty, that the only real evidence the prosecution has was that those hits on the dogs made, but that that should never have been allowed in because it wasn't. [28:17] really 100% accurate 100% of the time. And they were saying that they should have been able to present... [28:24] the case of the boat. Um, [28:27] they allowed the jury to see the boat on land, and they actually let them get in it. And the jurors were like going back and forth. And like, you could see that they were, you know, they were [28:37] kind of catching on and seeing if [28:39] they could push something out of the boat, but they're on land, so it doesn't really do anything. Right. [28:43] The prosecution or the judge wouldn't let them go out on water because he said it was too dangerous. [28:49] which kind of like, I feel like if you thought they were going to flip the boat, maybe proves the defense case. Yeah. [28:54] That action kinda speaks louder than words for me. [28:57] Right. So as they're going through this appeal, they get to do a full reinvestigation of the case. [29:04] And one thing that they're really bringing up that was never brought up the first time is Modesto isn't this tiny, small, quaint town. The media portrayed it to be this, you know, idyllic American California town, but that's just because it really played well into their story. The motto for Modesto is water, wealth, contentment, health. But... [29:28] I guess everyone who lives in Modesto, they always say murder meth and auto theft. Like, that's their slogan. So there's, I mean, a ton of, like, seedy underbelly. I mean, they have a meth problem. There's constant robberies. And you can't even say that, like, oh, that was...

[29:44] Outside of where Scott and Lacey lived in Modesto because again there was a robbery across the street right across the street. Yeah, they're not they're not too far removed for that and I [29:54] Then they also find this other huge, I think, story that totally gets my wheels turning. And this is the thing that makes me question everything the most. Between 1999 and 2002... [30:07] seven pregnant women [30:09] in the Modesto area go missing. - Whoa. [30:13] That's a lot. That's a lot. There's three in Modesto, and then four within an 80-mile radius of Modesto. [30:21] In three years. Like, I don't know the rate of pregnant women going missing in Indianapolis, but I'm pretty sure it's not this. Yeah, that seems unusually high. Yeah. [30:31] yeah there was a one woman named Evelyn Hernandez who was eight months pregnant and disappeared within six months of Lacey but of course like the whole Lacey thing was going on so it didn't [30:42] really get attention. And they, there was this story of a woman in a documentary that I watched who, [30:50] actually could have been Lacey. [30:52] She was eight months pregnant, [30:54] on Christmas Eve of 2002 and she said she was actually working at this little shop that she owned and there were these men who were like stalking her outside of her shop and she really felt threatened by them they were following her and so she ended up like calling her family and just staying inside and calling the police and when she called the police they went away and

[31:16] And that was earlier in the day, like shortly before Lacey goes missing. [31:21] And this lady ended up having her baby the same day that Connor was due. [31:26] And she said she really feels like those men were after her to kidnap her. [31:32] It's her belief. And, you know, when you're in this situation, it always feels probably scarier. But it's her belief that if those men would have taken her, she would have been Lacey and Lacey would have been OK. Wow. That's crazy. That's an insane story. It is. Finally, the defense is really pushing Lacey. [31:50] that Connor was handled outside of the womb. He had been almost disemboweled, and they said that his injuries weren't consistent with, like, the tide action. That's what the prosecution tried to say is, oh, that's just what happens when you're in water that long. [32:04] Um, but they, the defense doesn't think so. And they're still working on getting experts. And he had that electrical tape on his ear and that noose around his neck. And they said, none of that, like you wouldn't get tape on your ear from being in the water. Like, right. Not even possible. Um, so they don't, I mean, the problem is I think what people really want is they want a 100% story. Okay. Like, well, what are happening to these other pregnant women? We don't know. Like, [32:30] Do they want their babies? Do they... Like, has any of them gotten caught? No. So there's no... There's this kind of alternate narrative, but I don't feel like there are enough answers or... [32:41] enough solid answers to revoke this provocative story that the media and the prosecution have told about Scott Peterson. So...

[32:52] I don't know what to believe. If I'm being honest, though, when I came into the story, I was kind of like everyone else, like, I've heard this, he did it. The first time I went through all of this, it was so much new information, and it was so much new information. [33:03] that [33:04] I thought, "Oh my God, there's no way. There's no way he did it." The second time I go through it, [33:11] I think. [33:12] Okay, all of this is super new, it's super interesting. [33:16] But again, my God, he's got to be the most unlucky man in America. [33:21] to have all of this happen to him [33:23] And he's got to be the dumbest man in America. And, like, what are the odds that this guy is just... [33:28] such a crappy husband... [33:30] and is so stupid and this happens to his wife. So now I don't know what to think. I think like where I land is based on the evidence 100% he should not have been [33:41] he should not have been sentenced to death. I have no idea what happened to Lacey. [33:46] Yeah, I mean, at the beginning of these episodes I said that I was 100% sure that Scott did it, and you definitely gave me a lot of things to think about, and a lot of things to reconsider. [33:58] I'm with you. [33:59] If he didn't do it, he is the unluckiest guy on the planet. [34:04] Yeah. But... [34:06] Yeah, I'm not sure where I fall either. Everyone I talk to seems super divided on this. I mean, they're either really passionately believe he's guilty or they really passionately don't. People don't usually fall in the middle. I don't know if we're going to be seeing more of that. But I would really love to hear what the listeners think after hearing all this information. So if you guys could engage with us on social media, I'm super, super interested to hear your thoughts. If you want to tweet at us, it's at CrimeJunkiePod.

[34:36] And if you have any questions or feedback on the case, feel free to send us an email. Our email address is CrimeJunkiePodcast at gmail.com. [34:44] so crime junkie is written and hosted by me [35:14] All of our sound production and editing comes from Britt Prewatt. And all of our music, including our theme, comes from Justin Daniel. Crime Junkie is an AudioChuck production. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve? Do you approve? [35:27] *Mario* [35:31] Okay, crime junkies, you know I absolutely love a twist and a turn, especially when it comes to people who turn out to be someone they're not. That's why I have been obsessed with the podcast Chameleon. Every Thursday, host Josh Dean deep dives into a scam so bizarre, it will leave you wondering, how did they get away with that? [35:49] It is truly one of my favorite podcasts right now and I've been listening for years. [35:53] I think you'll love it too. [35:54] Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.