EXPERT ON: Domestic Violence

[00:00] Hi, Crime Junkies. It's Britt, and I have big news. One of my favorite seasonal shows, CounterClock, is back with a brand new season, and it is wild. Host Delia D'Ambra is digging into the 2008 Lane Bryant murders. I mean, this isn't just a recap. It is a reinvestigation. She's talking to law enforcement, people from the community, even sources who have never spoken publicly until now. And you know I love a show that asks all the questions. Listen to CounterClock Season 8 now wherever you get your podcasts. [00:30] Hey crime junkies, are you guys a little surprised to see me in your feed on a Tuesday? Well, I'm here because I have some special information for you. This isn't a normal episode. This is a follow-up to the episode we released on Monday. There was a portion of the episode where we were talking about Susan Powell after she had gone missing and all of her friends kind of looking back and recognizing all of this odd behavior. And there was a moment in [01:00] Where was everyone while it was going on? Why is everyone talking about it after it's too late? And I said, you know, I don't have any experience with domestic violence. I can't speak to how you help somebody or how you get somebody out of that situation. And that didn't feel like a good place to leave it for you guys. And we were lucky enough that in the last couple of weeks, someone actually reached out to us who is an expert in this area. And what I'm going to play for you guys is pretty much an almost unedited version of [01:30] with her, giving her story and her advice. She speaks for a living on this, all about what to do, what signs you should be looking for. And when you see those signs, how you can help a friend or a loved one out of this kind of situation.

[02:00] Thank you. [02:16] Before we even jump in, can you start off with telling all the listeners who you are and what you do and your background with what we're going to be talking about today? [02:24] Sure. [02:25] Um, [02:26] Thank you. [02:27] My name is Ashley Bendixson. I am an expert in domestic violence and sexual assault prevention work. I have a degree in administration of justice, and I dedicated my career to victim services and advocacy. And really, it stems from my own personal experience as a survivor of both of those issues. And so I also speak nationally year-round as a domestic violence sexual assault survivor. [02:50] That is amazing. So I have to say, you know, when you reached out, like I said, it could not have been better timing because we, Britt and I, had just recorded an episode on Susan Powell, which by the time this gets released will have just been released the previous Monday. [03:20] Thank you. [03:21] how he was, quote, legendarily controlling, and he would make her knit her own socks, and he would, like, control what her and the kids were allowed to eat. And I kind of said in the episode, like, I don't get it. Like, it's cool that you guys are all saying this now that she's missing, but where was everybody before? Was this, like, something everyone saw and no one said anything about? And if you did see it, why didn't you say anything, or how do you even say anything? And I kind of ended this whole little rant of, like, I know nothing about this,

[03:51] Yeah. [04:10] I think a really good place to start is like knowing the story that we just told. [04:16] What are things that people should be looking for? Because Susan Powell was never physically abused. She didn't show up to church or outings with black eyes. But I think there were major signs of abuse. And I don't know how are all of us supposed to recognize something like that when it maybe isn't so obvious. Yeah. You know, it's really hard to identify for a lot of reasons. [04:40] abusive relationships aren't physical. You know, physical abuse is something that comes as the abuse progresses, but a lot of times it begins as the, you know, controlling nature, being possessive, really the verbal, emotional, psychological abuse. And that's stuff that you can easily hide. And it's also something that victims over time start to learn how to manage and hide in a way where [05:10] this skill of really explaining it all, whether it's making excuses or, you know, they've just had a bad day at work or they're really stressed right now. It's not usually like this. But, you know, you're so right. Like the physical abuse is what we think that we would see. You expect to just see a black eye and know that a friend is in need. But the signs are so much more subtle. So it's almost just a matter of trusting your gut instinct and, you know, like really trusting

[05:40] things wrong, even if you really can't explain what that is. So if you got this hunch, because again, when we're talking specifically about this one case that we just talked about, obviously there were things that people saw that weren't normal and it didn't feel right, but nobody seemed to have done anything before. Yeah. [05:59] And I don't even know what the right thing to do is. Do you say something to them? Are there... [06:04] bigger actions you should be taking. Like, what are the next steps? If you get this gut feeling that something is wrong... [06:11] then what? Yeah, it's really common for people to have that gut instinct and not speak up. And I think [06:18] The simplest way to put it is that people know they want to offer help, they know they should reach out, but they're paralyzed simply by not knowing [06:27] what to say, [06:28] what to do. And [06:30] It goes back to just, you know, the age old tradition of this being something that people deal with in the privacy of their own lives and their own homes. And so it feels inherently awkward to, you know, approach someone about their relationship or insert your opinions. And in many cases, you're almost wondering, am I crazy? Am I just imagining this? Maybe it's not that bad. They seem to say everything's OK. So I think. [06:54] you know, we just need to, as bystanders, [06:57] get past our fear and discomfort of just simply going up to someone and saying [07:03] everything okay or saying I'm worried about you and as a little tip a lot of times when friends do work up the courage to address someone that I think is being abused they'll talk about you know I don't like that he does this that he does that and they talk about all these abusive behaviors that they're seeing and as a victim

[07:25] your instinct is to defend them to explain it and you just go on the defense [07:30] And sometimes the best thing you can do is simply say, [07:34] I've noticed that you have changed. I've noticed that you're showing up to work late all the time. I've noticed that you don't hang out with us anymore, that you're not doing your passions anymore, and really putting the focus on them because it allows them to really self-identify yourself [07:49] how much their life has changed and really how much it's probably being controlled by [07:55] their partner [07:56] Is it something, I mean, how often [08:00] does that happen the first time? Like how many [08:04] Is there even like some kind of formula to how many times you need to let somebody know that you're noticing this or keep reaching out to them? Because I think even in like, I don't know that I've had like full instances of this, but I've seen the way someone has changed a person and tried to approach them. And after so many times, it's really easy to give up. Right. It gets super frustrating when you keep trying to tell a friend to leave someone and you know that they should and they're not listening to you. [08:34] And in many cases, [08:35] Most people will be like, all right, I'm all set. They're not listening to me. I'm trying to help. And sometimes you stop staying in touch with that person, which is actually an awful thing, because then they really become even more isolated from anyone they might have for support. For most victims, it takes them a long time before they ever actually leave.

[08:56] I think the statistic is seven attempts before a victim actually goes through with leaving their abuser. So the best thing you can do is, [09:05] Say it three or four times, you know, bring it up every once in a while. But if they start to get bothered and they try to insist that everything's okay, stay present, you know, stay their friend, stay in their life, just so that when they are ready, they're going to know that you're the person they can go talk to. Because otherwise, the more you bring it up and the more you're trying to convince them and urge them to leave, the more they're just going to want to cut you out. And then really the only person they have in their circle is their abuser. [09:35] Is there a good way to do that when [09:38] Even the abuser is, I think, doing a lot for that person to convince them that their abuser is the only person they have. If they're pushing their family away and trying to drive a wedge between whoever they're abusing and their friends. Because I've personally even seen that where somebody... [09:54] is in a weird relationship and that person has driven them away from their family, away from their friends. And it's really hard to stay close to that person because you constantly have this person in between who's kind of in their ear saying that maybe you don't have their best intentions at heart. [10:07] Right, and especially if they pick up on the fact that you as a friend are trying to encourage them to leave them, they're going to badmouth you, they're going to call you names, they're going to say, oh, don't hang out with Mary, she's a bad influence, and they're going to brainwash them until they start to think, all right, I won't hang out with them anymore, and if you're an abusive partner...

[10:26] is upset that you're friends with so-and-so and it results in these huge arguments and, you know, violent outbursts, then you're going to slowly just side with your abuser. Because when you're in one of those situations, it's really like self-preservation. It's trying to... [10:42] manage it every day. And sometimes that means taking the easiest way out, which is just doing whatever you have to to satisfy the person that you're afraid of. So is there anything as someone from the outside, a friend, a loved one that you can do other than being there and trying to bring attention to the disparities in your friend or loved one's actions? Is there anything like at what point do you have to do more or should do more? [11:09] If at all. [11:10] You know, [11:11] It's a really, really tough issue because sometimes there's very little that you can do. I think if you're in fear of physical danger, it's really being vigilant about noticing any little warning signs, whether it's you're hanging out in a group and you see him grab her by the arm. Those are the kinds of things where you could potentially contact the police, but there's really little options. [11:41] other than just being a friend and trying to say, like, do you need help? Do you want help going to a resource center? You should call an anonymous hotline. But there's nothing that you can do to force a victim to leave their abuser if they're not ready. And unless you're really witness to anything where you can call an outside agency or law enforcement, sometimes your hands are just tied. And it's the saddest and most frustrating thing in the world for friends that are concerned. And it's just really unfortunate when...

[12:10] You know, everybody else can see that a victim is in need and needs help, but they're just not ready to do it for themselves. Is it... [12:18] Ever a good position or does it make it worse if you were to band together with maybe that person's family or a couple of friends who are all seeing this and confronting that person together? Or would they feel ganged up on? Is that something that everyone should just do and point out individually so that person's hearing it from a lot of people at once but maybe not feeling like everyone's attacking them? Yeah, I think every person is different. [12:48] that I've worked with, I think if it was a group effort, they would just really hate everyone even more because they're going to feel attacked. And I do think it's smart, though, to contact family members, siblings, parents, and kind of just share those concerns because I think multiple voices, you know, individually can make a big difference. And just kind of from a personal standpoint, [13:18] and I think if, well, actually, one person spoke up once to me, and I'll never forget that he was just like, you don't deserve this, and I was like, it's fine, I can manage it, but had more people said that, like one more person, then another person, then another person, maybe I really would have started to self-identify and thought, you know what, they're right, because otherwise, without all those voices saying, you should leave, you don't deserve this, you need to be safe, the voice in my head is what my abuser is telling me all the time.

[13:47] So I think more voices in the same shared message can be incredibly helpful. So I think it's a great idea to reach out to family and friends. [13:55] And kind of on that note, do you feel comfortable sharing more of your personal story? [14:00] I do, yeah. [14:01] Mm-hmm. [14:02] Yeah, I think everyone would love to hear that because, you know, obviously we've got this story of the woman we told who's very real, but it's almost been so publicized that it feels sometimes very far away. So I think to hear something that's like a very real world example of it. [14:19] and things that maybe you saw that you should have seen and how long it took you to kind of walk through that journey. [14:26] hundreds of thousands of people that listen. And I'm sure that at least one, two, maybe more people are kind of in the same situation. And even if it to help them know that they're not alone, I think would be a wonderful thing. [14:38] Absolutely. So when I grew up, I grew up in a small town and I really didn't know what domestic violence was. And I had these stereotypical images of who a victim is and who a batterer is. [14:50] So it's definitely not something I ever thought that I would get into. But I did end up becoming a victim when I was in college. My relationship, like all abusive relationships, started out amazing. And what I know now that I didn't know then is that the first phase of any abusive relationship is that they're incredibly charming and they're everything that you want them to be, and it feels too good to be true.

[15:20] the voice that I had. He was everything I had been looking for. And so I really fell head over heels for him very fast. And same on his end, he kind of had a rough past, so he felt the same about me. [15:33] So we spent a lot of time together in the beginning, which sometimes you would say, oh, that's a red flag. They spend all of their time together. But we both were into it. Like, we had a really awesome relationship. Our friends approved. Our coworkers thought we were a great couple. People seemed to really like him. He was just really charming. [15:50] But then over time, us hanging out together, he would start to say, [15:56] "Oh, you're gonna hang out with your friends tonight? I thought we were gonna hang out. I've missed you all day and I thought maybe we could make dinner together." And so he would be really subtle and basically just say, "I'm gonna miss you. I don't want you to leave. Why don't we do a double date instead so we can all hang out?" And I didn't realize that those were like early warning signs of control. And what started off as seemingly subtle and sweet and he cares about me, [16:23] then became like... [16:24] "Well, I don't want you hanging out with her, and she's a bad influence, and you told me that you were going to hang out with me tonight." And he just got really controlling really fast. And he definitely isolated me from my friends. [16:37] my family, my coworkers, any of the extracurriculars and like hobbies and passions that I enjoy doing. He would find ways to pull me away from them somehow so that I would just spend time with him. And eventually it got to the point where I was so afraid to ever even say, I'm going to go to the movies today with my best friend, or I'm just going to go to the mall today and do some shopping. I was so afraid to ever ask to do anything without him because I knew it would bother him and he'd get upset.

[17:07] get upset he would get erratic he would do things like you know drive kind of crazy all over the road he would start screaming out of nowhere and i just tried my best to just calm him down remind him that i cared about him that i loved him you know tell him that he can trust me i'm not trying to upset him and so that was kind of the beginning of it but then over time [17:33] Because of the control and because of the isolation and the manipulation, my career started to tank. I wasn't performing well at work. He even forced me to drop out of college because it was so stressful and overwhelming that my grades were dropping. I couldn't focus on anything. And before I knew it, I basically lost everything in my life. [17:54] You know, my network of support and my hobbies and really any career or goals or aspirations that I've been working towards. [18:02] And meanwhile, while I kept saying, "Well, it's not that bad. At least he never hits me, even though he gets really angry." [18:10] I was... [18:11] not identifying all these little physical warning signs. So like he would restrain me if I tried to walk out of a room, or he would grab me really hard by my wrist while he yelled at me, or he would hold me up against a wall and scream in my face, or even just driving erratically to induce fear. So those were all little warning signs. And about a year and a half into our relationship was the first time that he really ever acted out physically towards me.

[18:41] and he got so angry that he punched the glass at the front door and it shattered into my face. [18:46] And then he was doing things like getting angry every other day and throwing objects and, you know, kicking in furniture. And I just felt so unsafe. [18:56] Chime is changing the way that people bank. They offer the most rewarding fee-free banking built for you. Chime has thousands of fee-free ATMs. Like, why pay to get your own money? Plus, you can get savings that grow faster with a 3.75% APY. That is nine times higher than the national average. Chime members can even staff benefits, like up to $1,150 in annual rewards, [19:25] premium travel perks. Their Spot Me feature even lets you overdraft up to $200. And all of that is without fees. There is nothing not to like about this. It is clear why Chime is rated five stars by USA Today for customer service. Real humans 24-7. When you switch, you're not just switching banks. You are upgrading to America's number one choice for banking with a Chime checking account. Chime's not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are [19:55] Thank you.

[20:22] This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. For some, summer is their favorite season. Travel picks up, kids are out of school, and adventure is in the focus. For others, juggling it all can lead to overwhelm and counting down the minutes until the kids are back in school. And many worry that they're wasting the days of sunshine. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, to support can make all the difference. BetterHelp makes it easy to get started with quality, fully licensed therapists in the U.S. who follow a strict code of conduct. In fact, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform with over 30,000 therapists [20:52] million people globally. Their therapist match commitment does the initial matching work so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and if you aren't happy with your match you can switch to a different therapist at any time. It works. BetterHelp has an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer. Find support in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com slash crimejunkie. That's betterhelp.com [21:22] so that was about two years where I thought that I could manage our relationship and I thought that things were always going to get better because he would apologize and say he was so sorry and he would tell me why he was acting a certain way because of work or stress or whatever it was and I really just hope that things would go back to the way they once were because I always held on to hope that [21:47] Maybe he really is the guy that I met. Maybe he's really this sweet guy, and I didn't want to just give up yet. But I knew once he got really violent and I felt very in danger that I had to finally leave him. And this was after thinking about leaving him so many times. But I finally knew that I had to to keep myself safe. So I broke up with him, and about two weeks later, he was intoxicated,

[22:17] and he broke in and I was severely attacked. He came at me, he was screaming that he hated me, I ruined his life, and he grabbed me by the throat and he strangled me and he pinned me to the ground and it was horrifying. And [22:33] You know, that alone, I think, was something that I was so fearful might happen that that's probably one of the reasons I waited so long to actually break up with him, because this fear of retaliation and just trying to keep myself safe on a day-to-day basis. [22:46] So, [22:48] Long story short, that night when he attacked me, at one point he just got off of me and like kicked at me and walked away. And I was already starting to pass out a little bit, but I was gasping for air and I came to. And that's when I ran out of the apartment, ran up the street to a pay phone and called the police. And that was how I was able to finally leave him. [23:18] it was such a whirlwind of wondering how things had gotten that bad because I still remembered how amazing he was when I first met him and how I thought he was like my dream man come true and just how things just escalated like it had a mind of its own and I just never saw it along the way I never saw that I was a victim I never thought that he was a batterer that I was a victim of domestic violence because to me it was just our relationship and he had issues and and I was trying to [23:44] help him through those issues. So [23:47] You know, it was just, it was eye-opening. And now...

[23:50] that I am a speaker year round. I go into a lot of high schools and colleges and I speak to women's groups. My story is not unique. It's something that so many people are going through right now, something that so many people can relate to, you know, in some way. Maybe it didn't get as bad as my story, but... [24:07] all those little like control and manipulation and insecurity and [24:11] You know, not wanting you to. I mean, nowadays it's like, oh, why are you friends with this guy on Facebook? Unfriend them. You know, it's just it's stuff that we we play off. But these are all the little warning signs that add up to some of the most extreme cases that we see of domestic violence and unfortunately domestic violence, homicide. [24:29] And it's amazing because I obviously started this saying, you know, I don't know anyone, I don't have experience with this, but... [24:36] in the last 20 minutes, listening to you talk and even listening to your story, I have seen... [24:41] seen the stuff that you've talked about in multiple ways [24:44] relationships between family members or friends, like people that I consider myself very close to. And again, I recognize it as not being right. And I don't want you to be with that person. [24:57] But... [24:57] Gosh, I mean, I'm wondering how many times people are even not recognizing it for really what it is. [25:03] Right. Well, and that's the thing. People just aren't educated on what domestic violence is. We know about physical violence, but, you know, if more people heard the basic definition and learned about verbal abuse and emotional abuse and things like isolation and manipulation, they would be self-identifying less than right, you know? [25:20] It's just an education thing. It really is. And for me, honestly, when I finally self-identified,

[25:26] I heard a speaker and my life was like in PowerPoint slides in front of me. I'm like, oh my God, like I'm a victim of domestic violence. It was crazy. [25:34] It is weird to see it in front of you. And I was kind of, that was my follow-up question is, for people who might already have suspected or are listening to this and kind of like me, like light bulbs are going off and being like, I recognize this. If they're the actual person in the relationship, what advice do you have for somebody who feels like, [25:55] they might be the person being abused by somebody. [25:58] - Yeah, first and foremost, things don't get better. [26:03] And that's not just my opinion. That is fact. People that are abusive, unless they want to seek help and get help for themselves, it doesn't get any better. It's just going to get worse. I think being aware and starting to self-identify is the first step. And then it's just a matter of planning out how you're going to safely leave, not just breaking up and not telling anyone like I did where then I was attacked and I wasn't prepared for that. [26:33] Who will I tell? You know, if they have a shared key to the apartment, making sure that you change the locks. [26:39] There are local agencies in every community that offers free advising and free counseling and free resources. A lot of people don't realize that most, quote, unquote, women's shelters actually have, like, free services for you, and they'll help you come up with a safety plan. So I think it really is just being self-aware, knowing that you have to make the – it's not the easiest decision, but the right decision, the smart decision to take care of yourself and your safety,

[27:09] in whether it's friends or counselors and making sure that you have a safe exit so that nothing goes wrong and you know it's really hard when you love someone because you want to be there and you want to wait it out but I think just knowing that they have issues and they have to work on them and you can't do anything to fix that or change that [27:27] you know, is really just the beginning of understanding that you have to take care of yourself first. And to be clear, do you think that anyone who is in any [27:37] like stage or level of abusive relationship needs to have a safety plan. Cause I think, um, if I were listening to this in my mind, I would be like, well, you know, [27:45] He's never maybe hurt me yet or touched me yet. It's just all this emotional stuff. I don't think he would ever actually... [27:52] Touch me. [27:53] But is that plan necessary for everyone? [27:56] You know, I do think it can depend on the situation. However, you know, we've seen cases where somebody was never physically abusive, and then the second that, you know, the relationship ended, they literally lost it. Because, really, domestic violence is centered on this need for power and control. [28:26] showed up before I think if it's really in the early stages of a relationship where it's really just kind of minimal emotional abuse verbal abuse and you're kind of like seeing those warning signs you want to leave you definitely don't have to go that step but I think if the relationship has gone on for a little while six months to a year they're pretty invested in you and you leaving them could definitely trigger some stuff so I think it's just

[28:51] Like I said, calling up these free local hotlines, talking to someone that's confidential and anonymous and just picking their brain is always a great first place to start. [29:01] Is making the plan the same if it's just me and a boyfriend or if I have a child with this person? Is there anything different that I should be considering, anything more I should be considering, now that you're not just worried about your own safety, but this child that maybe you even share with your abuser? [29:21] Yeah, okay. So when there's children in the picture, it definitely requires [29:26] much more effort because now you might even have to do something like warn the secretary at the child's school that a certain [29:35] person shouldn't be coming by to pick them up. If there's something like a restraining order in place, you might have to tell the kids dance teacher or their coach. And you really just have to be super vigilant about making sure that's [29:46] the right people in your kid's life are aware and alert for this person. And then there's other things that you can do through the help of obviously the court system. If you want to keep your children away from them, you can reach out to local child and family agencies. [30:02] and they have a lot of support programs. If the kids were witness to abuse, there's amazing free counseling for kids through the local shelters. So again, I think it's just having that phone call with somebody who's an expert in your community, and they will point you to all the right resources to make sure that you and your children are both safe. And I have a question more on the abusers side. Is this a cycle that they tend to repeat over and over? Like, I have to imagine that when

[30:32] one relationship and they go into another, they almost start over where it's magical and it's beautiful. They don't just go into the next one being abusive. Like what about the abuser psychology, if you know, makes them... [30:45] start off so well? Is it manipulation from the start or... [30:49] I mean, I guess I don't know what plays into their thinking. Yeah, you know... [30:53] Domestic violence, they say, is learned. So it's definitely a pattern of behaviors that they have learned are normal in a relationship. Nobody is going to be abusive on date one, otherwise you'd never stay with them. You know, so it's... [31:06] You're exactly right. When one relationship ends and they move into another one, it is the same cycle of behaviors all over again. That phase one where they charm you, phase two where they slowly start to isolate you and manipulate you, phase three where they have full control over you. [31:36] lot of times they'll say, oh, don't listen to what you hear. They were crazy. They were the one that was abusive. You know, it's just, it's a cycle that really never ends. And unless they get specific programmatic help to undo those behaviors that they've learned are normal and appropriate, they just keep repeating themselves. And just from a personal standpoint, my abuser, a few months

[32:06] her and you know she had tried reaching out to me on I think with my space at the time but you know it was like literally a few months later he was already doing it to someone else and even since then I've heard through the grapevine that he's been in court for other victims and I also found out that he had other restraining orders long before me so [32:26] You know, it's just a toxic cycle, and it does. It keeps repeating itself. [32:30] Is there anything that, you know, we all talk about how to help the victim, which I think is the number one priority. But I think, you know, these abusers often have friends and family as well. Like if somebody were on the opposite end and recognizing like, [32:44] Wow, I see this in my friend or my brother's [32:48] Is there anything someone could do... [32:51] to try and get that person help. Yeah, that's a really challenging task because there are batterer intervention programs. But the problem is, unless they know that they have a problem and want to change, you can't force them to go unless the court forces them to go, obviously. But, you know, I mean, you can you can definitely go up to someone that you think is abusive and you can take the same approach as you would for the victim. Like, I noticed that you do this and [33:21] You know, you get so upset every time they do this, but you don't need to feel that way. [33:27] But unless you can really convince them that they should go change, [33:30] It's very challenging. And most batter intervention programs, they cost a lot of money.

[33:36] They're 40 weeks long. They're effective, but who wants to just, you know, front all this money, especially if they don't think they have a problem to do a 40-week. [33:44] you know, batterer program. So it's really, really hard to help a batterer see that what they're doing is wrong because they've essentially spent a lifetime [33:54] growing up and learning that these behaviors are completely normal so [33:58] It's really, really hard to do. It's hard to reach somebody who's abusive. [34:02] So where do you see most abusers ending up? In prison or living their life with [34:09] a chain of abused women? Yeah, in a perfect world, they would be in prison or they'd be reformed, they'd be going through programs. But unfortunately, most batterers, you know, they don't ever get to that extreme level where, you know, they're severely physically hurting someone enough to get put into jail for life. Most of them, if they even ever get caught on any behaviors with the law, it's like a misdemeanor. So, you know, for the most part, they just keep cycling through these [34:39] unfortunately that person remains a victim and they spend their lives together you know there's plenty of victims that never leave their abusers ever and they spend a lifetime with this person so [34:50] Yeah, unfortunately, they don't end up in prison. And most cases ever get reported to the police because, you know, most victims don't call the police when an incident happens. And if the police happen to show up because the neighbors call, the victim can say it was nothing. I'm fine. They overheard the TV and the police really can't do much more than that unless they see some kind of.

[35:12] indication of violence or destruction. So most cases never even make it to the police. So most domestic violence is just in our neighborhoods, in our communities, and it's hidden behind closed doors and nothing ever happens. Is there, I mean, obviously what we talked about at the beginning of this episode is, you know, loving those people and being there for those people. Is there anything else as a society that we should be doing or in a perfect world would help prevent something like this? [35:38] Yeah, I think it's twofold. I think the first part, which we've really been emphasizing, is being a bystander, understanding that we all do play a role when someone's going through a situation like this, [35:53] Most people remain silent and that's why these behaviors just perpetuate and continue to happen. So I think seeing our individual roles as bystanders, feeling like we can go up to someone and say, I'm concerned, how can I help you? You know, what can I do? That's a huge piece of it because it acknowledges that you notice something is wrong and it kind of maybe validates the fears that, [36:15] they have the feelings that they've been going through that something is wrong. [36:19] I think the other piece is that we who have gone through these situations and these types of relationships should tell our stories more. Because I know for me, hearing it from someone else validated my experience and allowed me to self-identify and get myself out of my situation. And now as a speaker, the reason that I choose to speak year-round is because I've seen the power of telling my story and helping others to change their lives and get out of their abusive relationships.

[36:49] with so many of us, so many victims, [36:52] feel unique. They feel like no one will understand what they're going through. [36:56] They feel very alone, like they can't open up. So I think simply by talking about this more and telling more of these stories, we can start to help more victims leave sooner. You know, we'll never stop these relationships from starting or happening. But I think if we can get people to leave sooner, that's the best possible path that we can hope for. I think that second point is so important because, again, as we've been talking and I've been thinking about instances where I've seen red flags like this, I think part [37:26] and it's such a disconnect is often I've seen it in people that I consider to be really strong women. And I think... [37:34] The way it's been portrayed for so long in society is that it happens to like a very specific woman who doesn't speak up and she might be a weak woman. But I don't think that's true. I think it happens to very strong, successful women. I don't think there is a stereotype of a person that can be abused. Do you see that often that it can happen to anyone? Absolutely. And the same goes for people who are abusive. They can be, you know, very well off, well educated. [38:04] for who a victim is and who a batter is. And to your point, I definitely always felt like I was a really strong woman. And part of me thought, I'm not a victim. I'm strong. And I'm here to help him through his demons and understand and be empathetic towards his past and be compassionate and patient. So I thought I was a really strong woman. I definitely didn't see myself as weak. And that's part of why I didn't stand out as a victim.

[38:30] because weak people were victims and that wasn't me. Is there anything else that we haven't covered that you normally do when you go and speak to larger audiences or speak to victims? Anything that you think the audience should know, somebody who's maybe listening and going through this or listening and seeing somebody go through this? [38:47] I think we've... [38:49] I think we've covered a lot of it. [38:51] Amen. [38:52] I just think... [38:53] it's very easy to make excuses for [38:57] why someone's treating you a certain way, but you start to realize that you're making excuses all the time. And we just need to focus on ourselves and taking care of ourselves first and foremost. And, you know, it's amazing how relationships can just – [39:12] you know, tear up your whole life and turn everything upside down. But we just need to get back to who we are and really taking care of ourselves. So I think if you're in a situation [39:21] You know, just trust your own instinct and just try to get out. And just as a whole, societies, communities, you know, organizations, companies, we just need to improve the culture so that we're not working silent about this stuff anymore. [39:36] Absolutely. And do you have, I know you said everyone can go, there's like local resources, but do you have any kind of website or anything that you offer people if they wanted to go look up a little more information about you or your, your, [39:49] talks that you give? Yeah. You can look me up anywhere. I'm on all the channels, all the places, Ashley Bendixson, but my website is ashleybendixson.com. I do, like I said, I speak at schools, but I even do things like workplace trainings. You know, a lot of my coworkers didn't know how to help. And so I talk about how coworkers can be bystanders. So there's so many different ways that this conversation can happen. And I'd love to help anyone out there that has an interest.

[40:19] a support and a mentor to anyone who's in an abusive relationship right now or transitioning. You know, I really love helping people that are in those first few phases of leaving an abusive relationship and rebuilding their life. So if anyone has resonated with anything, [40:34] just send a message and I'd love to connect and do whatever I can to serve and help. And can they reach you through your website or do you have like a specific email address? [40:43] Yeah, my website, or you can just email Ashley at AshleyBendixen.com. [40:48] I also have a website project that I launched recently, and it's a storytelling platform for survivors. And you can submit your story entirely anonymously, but really it's just going to be a site where we can share our stories to help validate the experiences of others. So if anybody out there has a story they want to share, they can visit blueheartsproject.com. And it's just a quick and simple form, and they can do it entirely anonymous, and I know it will help so many other victims out there. [41:17] That's amazing. And well, thank you so much. Like I said, I so appreciate you coming on. You know, we tell these stories and... [41:25] I hate for true crime to just be entertainment. I think in everything that we've done, there's something that can be learned. So... [41:33] Hopefully this doesn't happen to another victim and [41:36] I, again, so appreciate you coming on because I think there was a lot to learn from the last episode, but I wasn't the person to do it. So having you was so helpful. So thank you so much. Oh, my pleasure. And, like, thank you for covering this issue. I think it's awesome to use a podcast as a way to educate people and help people. And I just I think it's really neat. And you're so right. There's so many crime podcasts out there that are just, like, entertaining. And we forget, like, the human aspect of, like, these are people and this is what people are going through right now. And so I think it's awesome what you're doing.

[42:06] my pleasure to serve and help you out. [42:09] I hope all of this information was helpful or at least enlightening for some of you. If you want more information on Ashley, you can visit her website, ashleybendiksen.com. That's A-S-H-L-E-Y-B-E-N-D-I-K-S-E-N. [42:39] website with she actually is kind enough to have provided us all of her contact information if somebody out there listening is in a situation and you'd like to get her advice you can also visit blueheartsproject.com that's where she's collecting the stories of survivors to hopefully help other people in this situation all of this information will be on our website crimejunkiepodcast.com and you can expect us back for our regularly scheduled episodes next monday [43:09] This week's episode of Crime Junkie was hosted by me. All of our editing and sound production was done by David Flowers, and all of our music, including our theme, comes from Justin Daniel. Crime Junkie is an AudioChuck production. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve?

[43:39] Okay, crime junkies, you know I absolutely love a twist and a turn, especially when it comes to people who turn out to be someone they're not. That's why I have been obsessed with the podcast Chameleon. Every Thursday, host Josh Dean deep dives into a scam so bizarre, it will leave you wondering, how did they get away with that? [43:58] It is truly one of my favorite podcasts right now and I've been listening for years. [44:01] I think you'll love it too. [44:03] Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.