Verdict in double murder trial. Olympian accused of being drug kingpin. Plus, catfishing.

[00:02] Mazda has been named Consumer Reports' safest new car brand. It starts with our approach. Every Mazda comes standard with proactive safety features. So you're more aware of what's around you, more focused on the road ahead, and ready before problems ever start. [00:19] Mazda. More of what matters most to you. Go to mazdausa.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse or promote any product. [00:30] A strange thing happens when you put off finishing your college degree. [00:33] Maybe next semester. [00:35] Turns into five years. [00:37] And the thought is still [00:39] Lingering, waiting, haunting you. [00:42] That's what Southern New Hampshire University understands. [00:45] They have more than 200 affordable, flexible online degree programs. [00:50] and the application takes just minutes to complete. [00:53] Don't let your degree linger like an unsolved case. [00:57] Apply today at snhu.edu slash dateline. [01:01] Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's February 5th, 2026. [01:08] Before we get to this week's show, we wanted to talk about Nancy Guthrie, the 84-year-old mother of our dear friend and colleague Savannah Guthrie. Nancy was reported missing on Sunday, and according to the Pima County Sheriff, she was abducted from her Tucson, Arizona home. We do believe that Nancy was taken from her home against her will, and that's where we're at. [01:31] Nancy, who lives alone, was last seen by family on Saturday night around 945 when she was dropped off at her house after dinner. When she didn't show up for church the next morning, her family went to check on her. She was nowhere to be found. According to the sheriff, Nancy's phone and wallet were left behind at the home, along with critical medicine she takes on a daily basis.

[02:01] poring over cell phone data and trying to access footage from security cameras at the house. He acknowledged that all of this will take time. [02:09] Late Wednesday, Savannah, her sister Annie, and brother Cameron released the following statement on Instagram. [02:16] On behalf of our family, we want to thank all of you for the prayers for our beloved mom. [02:24] Nancy. [02:26] We feel them. [02:28] And we continue to believe that she feels them too. [02:33] *sigh* [02:34] Our mom [02:36] is a kind [02:37] Faithful. [02:39] Boyle. [02:40] fiercely loving woman of goodness and light. [02:45] She's funny. [02:47] Spunky. [02:48] and clever. [02:49] She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd around her and cover her with kisses. [02:57] She loves fun and adventure. [03:00] She is a devoted friend. [03:03] She is full of kindness. [03:05] and knowledge [03:07] Talk to her and you'll see. [03:09] Savannah also had this to say to whoever might have taken her mom. [03:14] We are ready to talk. [03:16] However, [03:18] We live in a world [03:19] where voices and images are easily manipulated. [03:24] We need to know [03:26] Without a doubt. [03:28] that she is alive. [03:30] and that you have her. We want to hear from you.

[03:35] And we are ready to listen. [03:38] Please, reach out to us. [03:42] Thank you. [03:43] Mommy? [03:46] If you are hearing this, [03:48] You are a strong woman. [03:51] You are God's precious daughter, Nancy. [03:57] We believe and know that even in this valley, [04:02] He's with you. [04:04] Everyone is looking for you, mommy, everywhere. [04:09] We will not rest. Your children will not rest until we are together again. [04:18] If you have any information to pass on to authorities, the tip line number is 1-800-CALL-FBI. That's [redacted phone]. And we'll put that number on the description for this episode as well. Our thoughts and prayers are with Savannah during this incredibly difficult time. [04:41] And here's what's coming up on today's episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. With the Winter Olympics just around the corner, we've got the story of a former Olympian behind bars in Southern California. Federal prosecutors say the one-time snowboarder is a drug kingpin responsible for several murders. According to prosecutors, Wedding put out a hit on him. He put out a bounty on him. In Dateline Roundup, a big ruling in the case of Luigi Mangione...

[05:08] And a crucial court hearing for Charlie Adelson, the Florida dentist convicted of conspiring to murder his former brother-in-law, FSU law professor Dan Markell. His lawyer made arguments in front of a panel of appellate judges about why his conviction should be overturned. Plus, this week, we'll talk to a cybersecurity detective about catfishing. What is it and how to avoid it? Every site nowadays or any interaction you have on a digital front, you can be catfished. [05:38] got a verdict in the trial of the Virginia man accused of masterminding a double murder plot to start life over with the family au pair. For the past three weeks, the jury at the trial of Brendan Banfield has listened to testimony about infidelity, catfishing, and murder. Banfield is the former IRS agent accused of plotting to kill his wife Christine and a complete stranger by the [06:08] Brendan and his lover, Juliana, the family's Brazilian au pair, used a fetish website to lure Ryan to the Banfield's home on the morning of February 24th, 2023, with the promise of a sexual encounter with Christine. After Ryan arrived at the house, prosecutors say Brendan and Juliana both shot Ryan and Brendan stabbed Christine.

[06:38] There was no plan. That is absolutely crazy. When we last checked in on the trial, Brendan Banfield was on the witness stand about to share his version of that morning. Here to walk us through what he said is Dateline producer Brad Davis. Brad, welcome back. Great to be here. So Brad, Brendan's testimony was always going to be the cornerstone of his defense. The jury, you know, when there's a story like this, they want to hear it from the person involved. [07:08] ever talked about all of this publicly, right? Exactly. He never spoke to the cops about this. He never really gave his version of events. So let's dive into Brendan Banfield's testimony. He said he remembered that morning in great detail because of something very specific on his calendar. That's right. He said that morning that he had an important meeting at his IRS offices with his supervisor that he thought was potentially going to lead to a promotion for him. So he left the house early to get ready for that meeting. And then he stopped by McDonald's to get [07:38] Okay, so he's at McDonald's and he says that's where he gets a call from Juliana, the au pair, about a stranger going into the house. [07:54] What does he say happened from there? He says that he turned around and just drove home. And he said that's where he met up with Juliana, who was there with his daughter at the house. They left the daughter, Valerie, in the basement, and then he headed up towards the bedroom. So Brendan Banfield goes on to say that he could hear noises coming from the bedroom. I heard the sounds of...

[08:18] I would say moaning as well as [08:22] Sound of. [08:25] Skin on skin contact. What did you think was going on at that point? Sex. [08:32] Why didn't you call 9-1-1 at that point? Well, I believe that it was an affair. [08:38] that was going on at that point. [08:39] So Brendan testified, Brad, that at some point the sounds from the bedroom became something different. He said it sounded like Christine was in pain. Yeah. So he says he rushed into the bedroom and that's when he saw Ryan, this other man, over his wife on the bedroom floor. Christine said, Brendan, he has a knife. [09:03] What were you thinking in terms of [09:06] Thank you. [09:07] Joe Ryan with a knife to Christine's neck. [09:10] I was [09:11] extremely terrified. [09:14] Thank you. [09:15] I don't know that I've ever been more panicked in my life. Brendan was an armed agent for the IRS and told the jury that he took his gun out of his holster, but didn't fire it right away. Why not if his wife is in danger? Yeah, he said it was a very tight space and he didn't want to fire and hit Christine. He also said he hadn't fired his gun very much in an uncontrolled situation before. He said that when he saw Ryan stabbing Christine, he did fire his gun. [09:45] and rushed to his wife's aid. And at the same time all this was going on, he described Juliana rushing to get a gun and a gun safe that he kept in the home. And she shot at Joe Ryan as well. Okay, so we should remind people that Juliana has pleaded guilty to manslaughter for her role in Ryan's death. And Brendan's attorney pointed out to the jury that she got a lighter sentence later.

[10:09] in exchange for testifying against Brendan. That's right. So Brendan Banfield continues painting a very dramatic picture, and it gets very graphic. Yeah. He said that Christine was able to speak even though she had been stabbed in her neck. [10:25] Christine told me that she was bleeding out. [10:29] And that she was sorry and that she loved me. [10:34] But, [10:35] Even when he was describing all this, he didn't really show a lot of grief or sadness. I mean, there were no tears when he was testifying. He was very matter-of-fact about it all, which I think the jury probably picked up on. So when it was the prosecution's turn to cross-examine Brunden, they— [10:53] zeroed in on the way he characterized his relationship with the au pair. Yeah, Brendan really tried to minimize his relationship with Giuliana. He said it really was not a big deal to him that he'd had other affairs, and this was just another affair to him. But the prosecution pressed him on this, and he started to get pretty defensive. You indicated earlier in your testimony that this affair with Giuliana was really a nothing, right? This was not a relationship relationship. [11:21] Correct. [11:24] - I would say that it was a relationship, but it is an affair, but I wouldn't categorize it as serious. [11:31] Not serious. Okay. Did you love her? [11:34] Thank you. [11:35] There was points that I told her that I loved her. You told her that you loved her, but you didn't actually love her.

[11:41] I would say... [11:44] I would say that I had feelings for her, but they weren't nearly as strong as feelings for my wife. [11:50] Another big moment, Brad, from the prosecution came when they asked Brendan about a relationship he'd pursued on a fetish website. Yes. Brendan admitted that he'd been looking for a woman to be his, quote, sugar baby. But what matters here is that Brendan was admitting that he'd actually gone to fetish websites. Remember, prosecutors say the way he lured Joe Ryan to the house was by posing as his wife on a fetish website. Brendan denied all of that. [12:20] familiar with. Brad, was there any proof that Christine had ever been on any fetish websites at any point in her life that would make this make sense? No, neither side presented any sort of evidence about that at all. So the prosecutor also pushed back on some of the details Brendan had given about the mourning of the murders. They questioned whether Christine would have been able to even speak following those stab wounds to her neck. And all of this talking is happening in [12:48] with what at that point in time has to be all seven of the wounds in her neck, correct? [12:54] Yes. And then one more blow the prosecution landed on Brendan's credibility was, remember, he had a clear recollection about leaving home early for his big meeting. Well, the prosecution called his supervisor and the supervisor testified that that meeting didn't happen and was not supposed to happen. Were you scheduled to meet with Mr. Banfield? I was not. Oh, wow. That is really catching up.

[13:15] Brendan Banfield in what appears to be a lie. All right, so it was time for closing arguments, and the state went first. Yeah, the prosecution really leaned into the motive here. They said that Brendan had concocted this elaborate plan. He really wanted to be with Juliana and that the relationship with Juliana was far more serious than he led jurors to believe in his testimony. [13:35] What was the defense's main argument in closings? The defense lawyer basically said you can't trust Juliana Story. She's not reliable as a witness, nor can you trust the state's catfishing theory, that it was only a theory. [13:48] The jury got the case on Friday. The verdict came back Monday night after nine hours of deliberation. [13:55] Brad, what did they decide? Guilty on all the charges against him. The two aggravated murder charges carry mandatory life sentences, so he'll spend the rest of his life behind bars. He's going to be sentenced in May, and there will be victim impact statements then. Juliana's sentencing, the au pair sentencing, should be at some point before that. So we'll be waiting for that. Okay, Brad, thank you. So many lives ruined over this bizarre case. Just really sad. Thank you for breaking it down for us. Sure. Been glad to talk to you. [14:28] Coming up, the snowboarder who ended up on the FBI's 10 most wanted list. [14:38] Insurance is not one-size-fits-all. That's why drivers have trusted progressives' name-your-price tool for years.

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[16:23] Welcome, everyone, to Park City, Utah, and the continuation of snowboarding. Today, it is parallel Giants' Lom men's qualification. Two decades later, Ryan Wedding is making headlines again, but not for the reasons you might expect. In 2025, the one-time Olympian ended up on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list, accused of heading up an international drug trafficking organization and for ordering a string of killings, including the murder of a federal witness. [16:53] FBI Director Cash Patel had to say about Wedding at a recent press conference. He is a modern-day El Chapo. He is a modern-day Pablo Escobar. Two weeks ago, after an international manhunt, Ryan Wedding was arrested in Mexico and extradited to the United States to face charges. He has pleaded not guilty. NBC News producer Michael Kosner, who covers the Justice Department, has been following the case closely and is here to tell us what he has found out about Ryan Wedding's surprising journey [17:23] engaged kingpin. Michael, thanks for coming on the show. [17:26] Absolutely. Glad to be here. You know, it seems like Ryan was sort of a hero at one point in Canada going to the Olympics and in a sport that was, you know, really up and coming at that time, snowboarding. It was. And it was a pretty meteoric rise. By the time he could walk, his family had him on skis. By the time he was 15 years old, he was winning junior titles. And that all culminated in this amazing run where at 20 years old, he was named to the Olympic team for the giant slalom.

[17:56] What did he do at the Olympics? He did not fare well. He came in 24th in the first round in his heat, and he did not even make it to the next round. That really ended his competitive career at that Olympics. So what does he do then for the next few years if snowboarding competitively is not in his future? He moves to Vancouver and he goes to a university there. He gets way into bodybuilding. So he begins lifting weights. He gets work as a bouncer in a bunch of clubs. [18:26] and drops out of the university. And allegedly he starts a marijuana growing operation in the area, a gigantic farm that is very lucrative. [18:37] Fast forward six years after the Olympics and Ryan Wedding was arrested in San Diego. Yeah, he got into a cocaine ring and he set up a cocaine deal in San Diego. Turned out it was an FBI sting. And he was arrested in 2008. [18:53] He was convicted at trial in 2009. He got quite a break. I think he got 48 months in prison. By 2011, he's out. [19:02] But one of the key things is he spent a lot of time in the jail in San Diego waiting trial. And law enforcement say that that was the beginning of him making associates to get into the trade in Mexico and Colombia. [19:16] Yeah, sounds like a recipe for disaster. So he moves to Montreal and allegedly forms this new relationship with the Sinaloa cartel. Exactly. Prosecutors tell us he's got these associates and now he's really working on transnational drug trafficking. He's moving drugs from Colombia through Mexico into Southern California to Canada.

[19:46] take him down in Canada. But he got away. He'd already made it to Mexico. And that's when he really went into hiding, was really under the protection of the Sinaloa cartel. So federal prosecutors say over the next decade, he's building a criminal enterprise, banning multiple countries, raking in hundreds of millions of dollars. I mean, this just feels like it's going to be a movie. [20:12] Doesn't it? [20:13] Absolutely. 100 percent. I mean, they talk about him showing up for meetings and in fancy clothes and fancy jewelry and high priced watches and things like that. Like he lived the part. So U.S. federal prosecutors filed an indictment against Ryan in June 2024, hitting him with 12 federal drug charges and murder charges. And one of the allegations against Wedding is that he took down a witness, a federal witness. [20:43] Four, that's when prosecutors and agents in the U.S., they were able to flip one of his associates. And according to prosecutors, Wedding put out a hit on him. And then law enforcement say, while this individual was in a restaurant in Medellin, a gunman came up to him and fired five bullets into him. [21:02] Man! [21:04] So... [21:05] It's after that that Wedding is put on the most wanted list, the FBI most wanted list. Yeah. And when you get on the top 10 most wanted list, that gives the FBI more resources to do publicity. [21:16] And they hit it hard. They...

[21:18] Flooded the zone, for lack of a better phrase. The FBI did social media. They posted on Facebook. They did all kinds of stuff down in Mexico for two reasons. One, maybe they get the extra tip they need. But two, they know darn well that he's watching. [21:34] that he's seeing all this, and he's starting to run out of options. They put pressure on [21:40] his family. And then they start taking the assets out as well. They got $40 million worth of motorcycles. They take out a $13 million. I didn't know there was such thing as a $13 million Mercedes, but apparently there is. Wow. So just two months after that raid where they got the Mercedes and the motorbikes, they arrested him. That was January 22nd. Olympic snowboarder turned alleged cocaine trafficker. Ryan Wedding was let off a plane in California in handcuffs. FBI Director [22:10] announced that he was captured in Mexico and extradited here to face trial. He stepped out of that plane. It was kind of dramatic, actually. I mean, they describe him as 6'3", 240. He was all of that. [22:25] Not the pictures that you see of the snowboarding sort of baby-faced people. [22:31] athlete. All right. So he was extradited to California. What happens to him now? Is he in jail? Yeah, he is. He's in federal detention. He's got another appearance in the next few weeks. He's got a pretty noted defense attorney. He's already spoken out a little bit. So we have to see how this plays out from here. Michael, thank you so much. This is really

[23:01] Florida dentist convicted of conspiring to murder his former brother-in-law, FSU law professor Dan Markell wants a new trial. And we've got some news in the case of Luigi Mangione. Plus, we're doing a deep dive on catfishing. What you need to know. [23:18] you [23:21] Mint Mobile plans are only $15 per month. Wondering what's the catch? There isn't one. [23:28] There are no gimmicks and no gotchas, just unlimited talk, text, and data. [23:33] Fast, reliable coverage on the nation's largest 5G network. [23:37] and an award-winning care team. [23:39] That makes Mint Mobile a catch. [23:42] You can bring your current phone and your phone number, [23:45] Choose from three, six, or 12-month plans and say goodbye to a monthly bill. [23:50] Ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile. It's so easy. Sign up online and get three months of premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month. [23:59] To get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to mintmobile.com slash dateline. [24:05] That's mintmobile.com slash dateline. [24:08] Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month at mintmobile.com slash dateline. [24:14] That's it. There's no catch. $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 a month. [24:20] New customers on first three-month plan only. Speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. [24:27] Additional taxes, fees, and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details.

[24:32] With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. He wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums, he'd also talk about how Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. [24:49] "'What's in your wallet?' [24:51] Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC. [24:59] Hi, I'm Daniel, founder of Pretty Litter. Cats and cat owners deserve better than any old-fashioned litter. That's why I teamed up with scientists and veterinarians to create Pretty Litter. Its innovative crystal formula has superior odor control and weighs up to 80% less than clay litter. Just one bag lasts up to a month, meaning fewer refills and less scooping. Pretty Litter even monitors health by changing colors to help detect early signs of potential illness. It's the world's smartest kitty litter. Go to prettylitter.com for 20% off your first order and a free litter mat. [25:35] Joining me for this week's Roundup is Dateline producer Sue Simpson. Hey, Sue, welcome back. Hey, Andrea. [25:41] So, Sue, up first, we're off to the federal courthouse in Manhattan, where a judge has issued two big rulings in the case of Luigi Mangione, the man accused of gunning down UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson back in December 2024. Sue, what is the latest with these rulings? Sure. So a judge ruled that two of the four federal charges Mangione was facing should be dropped, a federal firearms charge and the murder charge that would have allowed prosecutors to seek the death penalty.

[26:11] was a big deal, Andrea, Mangione will no longer face the death penalty. He will still stand trial in federal court on two counts of stalking. He's pleaded not guilty to all the charges against him. Sue, how did the judge reach this decision to drop the murder charge, which was a little surprising? I mean, isn't he behind bars because he's been accused of fatally shooting someone and planning it? Well, yes, exactly, Andrea. But remember, [26:41] not federal court unless there are specific circumstances that make the murder a federal crime. Examples might be that someone commits murder during an act of terrorism or someone kills a federal employee. So in her ruling, the judge said she realized some people might find the decision strange, but she had to follow the law. She said prosecutors had not met the legal standard to prove Mangione was technically guilty of a federal murder. Obviously, this ruling has [27:11] Mangione in state court. He's facing multiple charges there, including second-degree murder. And again, he's pleaded not guilty to all charges against him. The judge did hand the prosecution a big win in this hearing, allowing evidence recovered from Mangione's backpack to be admissible at trial. That's right, Andrea. This is the backpack that police recovered when Mangione was arrested at that McDonald's, remember, in Pennsylvania. So they found a notebook inside the backpack with

[27:41] gun and a silencer. And the defense said this evidence should not be admissible because the authorities didn't have a warrant to search his bag. But the judge said the police were justified in their search. [27:53] OK, so Mangione is scheduled to go on trial in both his state and federal cases later this year. We'll keep an eye on that. Up next, we're off to a Florida courthouse to talk about Charlie Adelson. He is the man convicted of conspiring to murder his former brother-in-law, FSU law professor Dan Markell. Charlie is fighting for a new trial. [28:23] us as best you can. It is so complicated. Absolutely. So after Dan Markell was gunned down in his driveway in 2014, investigators uncovered a sprawling murder for hire plot involving Charlie and Charlie's mom, Donna Adelson. Prosecutors argued that Charlie and his mother plotted to murder Dan Markell because Dan was caught up in a contentious custody dispute with Wendy Adelson, who was Charlie's sister and Donna's daughter. Okay, so now he's trying to get [28:53] He was sentenced to life in prison after his conviction in 2023. And at a hearing this week in Tallahassee, his lawyer made arguments in front of a panel of appellate judges about why his conviction should be overturned. [29:06] One of Charlie's lawyers argued that his trial should have been moved because the case had been so highly publicized in the media. This case has been permeating Tallahassee media sources for almost a decade at the time of this trial. Charlie's attorney went on to argue that at the time of jury selection, [redacted address] that they'd already made a determination about Charlie's guilt. That argument didn't seem to sit well with the judges, who pointed out that all those jurors were dismissed.

[29:36] What did the prosecution have to say about all this? Well, Andrea, the assistant attorney general representing the state said Charlie and his lawyer had the chance to challenge the composition of the jury at his trial, but they didn't. And that he'd also waived his change of venue argument. In other words, it's too late now to bring up these arguments. OK, we'll bring you that decision when we get it down the road. Sue, Salt Lake City, we have an update about a wrongful death lawsuit filed by the parents of Gabby Petito. [30:06] She is, of course, the 22-year-old woman strangled to death while on a cross-country road trip with her boyfriend, Brian Laundrie, back in 2021. It, of course, captured the nation's attention. So interesting that Gabby is back in the news. What is this wrongful death suit about? Well, back in 2022, Petito's family filed a $50 million lawsuit against the Moab Police Department. They claimed police negligence led to Petito's death. [30:36] And the family cited an incident from August 2021 when Moab police officers pulled over the couple's van, responding to a 911 call about a physical altercation. After interviewing Gabby and Brian, the police classified the incident as a mental health issue rather than a domestic violence assault. And they separated the couple for the night. It was a little over a month later that Gabby was found dead. Let's take a listen to some of that police body cam footage.

[31:06] hit you? I guess, yeah, but I hit him first. Where did he hit you? [31:11] Don't worry, just be honest. Well, see, he's... [31:14] So Gabby's, [31:15] family is [31:16] essentially using that police body cam footage to show that these officers were not trained properly to respond or identify a domestic violence situation and that ultimately failed to protect her. In response to the wrongful death lawsuit, the city released a statement saying that the Moab Police Department was not responsible for Petito's eventual murder. [31:46] in a district court, what happened there? Well, a judge dismissed the case saying that Utah's Government Immunity Act protected the officers from liability. Petito's family's fight for justice didn't end there. They appealed the court's dismissal of their wrongful death lawsuit, and this week they got big news from the Utah Supreme Court. Right, big news, that's right. Oral arguments have been scheduled for March 4th. The Petito family put out a statement saying [32:16] Gabby. Okay, thank you. We'll wait to hear what happens with this appeal. Sue, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. [32:27] For our final story this week, we wanted to take a closer look at catfishing. [32:32] Something we've been talking about a lot in the past three weeks in connection to the Brendan Banfield double murder trial. As we talked about earlier in this episode, Brendan made contact with Joseph Ryan, posing as his wife Christine on a fetish website. Listen to how prosecutors described their communication. Joe engaged in friendly conversation with who he thought was an attractive woman due to kink. Brendan, posting as Christine, spent a month creating this relationship with Joe that would eventually lead to Joe's murder.

[33:02] dream form of catfishing, but it made us wonder what exactly is catfishing and what are some red flags to watch out for. Here to help us get up to speed is cybersecurity expert Cody Brunig of Black Dog Forensics. Hey, Cody. Hey, how are you? Thank you for being here. So before we talk about the Banfield case, break down for us what exactly catfishing is. You know, we've all heard the term. [33:32] to catfishing and the way people use it and how they use it? Yeah, there really is. Just to give you a simple understanding, catfishing is when someone uses a fake online identity. Now, that's either created by a person or a lot of times nowadays is actually created by a bot. And oftentimes it's used to deceive, manipulate or scam others. So Joseph Ryan, authorities say he was catfished on this fetish website, which is one of the [34:02] can be vulnerable on any site at any time. Absolutely. Every site nowadays or any interaction you have on a digital front, you can be catfished. That could be just a scammer on the phone. It can be social media accounts, of course, all the common ones, Facebook, dating profiles, dating websites out there. Anywhere where somebody can create a fake identity is all

[34:32] to this. And you're a parent, I'm a parent. How do you worry about teenagers specifically with catfishing? What is there? Are there differences between teens and adults or is it the same? There are, especially with teenagers or people who are younger, don't have the life experience that say you and I would have. You and I can pause and say, wait a minute, there's some red flags, but teenagers can often be hormone driven and act spontaneously. And so if they believe they're [35:02] start flying, at which case they share intimate details or intimate photographs that are then used against them quickly. And what are some red flags that you can look for if you think you might be talking to a scammer? So the biggest thing I tell people is nowadays, listen to your instincts because our bodies are going to tell us right away. But outside of that, other red flags we want to look for is account creation. When was that account created? Chances are it's probably [35:32] low activity. It's going to have photographs that are easily identifiable online, not just private photographs. So if they're showing these photographs to be private and you can reverse search them and find that they're out online, those are all red flags. Outside of that though, you're going to typically have behavior or communication red flags, right? Something in the sense that's trying to push you to hurry, wants you to act quickly, wants to appeal to your emotions to do something. Oh, you don't have to do this. Come on, we know each other.

[36:02] It's some of those red flags. And then, of course, if they start asking for money and you've never met this person or know this person, which is a large number of cases, those are all red flags that should immediately make you pause. So, Cody, what can you do if you fall victim to catfishing? What are the number one pieces of advice that you have? [36:32] to scrape information about you that could be used in a fraudulent scam? Was it potentially sexual related where they were trying to get these photographs of you? Each one of these changes what you should and should not do. If it's something that's going to result in either a financial harm or harm to somebody through reputation, bring it to law enforcement's attention, but at very least bring it to other people's attention. Don't ever feel like that's a burden you have to carry on [37:02] children. I have children. I tell my kids all the time, I want you to be safe to come talk to me. If something's going on, if you messed up, it's okay. We all make mistakes. We can fix it. We can work through it, but you're not alone. And that's the big thing I want to tell people is you're not alone. And in fact, you're part of a much bigger group because a lot of people are catfished. Probably at some point, we are all catfished in our lives. Yeah, I totally agree with you. And

[37:32] Because I think that kids are afraid that they're going to get in trouble or they're embarrassed. And we really have to hammer that home that, no, it's much better to talk about it than to not. It is. Never, never have to carry that burden alone as parents, but as people, we're here for each other. This is, as I predicted, Cody, amazing advice. Thank you so much for all of this. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. [38:02] Thank you. [38:19] We'll be dropping all six episodes of Keith's original series... [38:23] The Thing About Helen and Olga. It's a twisted tale about two elderly women in Los Angeles who offered to help the homeless, but left a trail of horror and homicide in their wake. Two little old ladies. Angels, perhaps? In a city named for angels? But, as you might expect from a Dateline podcast, this is also a story about murder of a very gruesome kind. [38:50] And you can catch Keith talking to Lester about Helen and Olga's story in a special edition of Talking Dateline on Wednesday. Thanks for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummins, Caroline Casey, and Kiani Reed. Our associate producers are Ellery Gladstone-Grath and Aria Young. Our senior producer is Liz Brown-Kurloff. Production and fact-checking help by Audrey Abrahams. Veronica Mazzaca is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original music by Jesse McGinty.

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